PODCAST EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Michael Hall: From ShoHawk Media, this is Film-Making Footnote, with your host, Michael Hall. You’re listening to episode 7. This is the show where we give you the best film-making and production information, so you can make the best project possible, without having to spend a bunch of time or money at film school. Let’s do it.
What’s up guys? Hope you’re having a great day. You’ve got Michael Hall here. Today we are talking talent agents. Yep, talent agents. Talent agents, it’s a fairly broad term, but when it comes down to it, it’s a person who finds a job for an actor, an author, film director, a musician, model, film producer, sometimes professional athletes, writers, screen writers, or even broadcast journalists.
These people I’m sure that you’ve seen a lot of examples in film and television. The one that comes to mind most often is Ari from Entourage, is the classic example. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, there’s a TV show called Entourage that came out in the mid 2000s. It’s a fictionalized portrayal of a Hollywood celebrity and his crew, his gang, and their endeavors in the Hollywood society.
He has a talent agent in the show named Ari Emanuel. Ari, he’s kind of the embodiment of what you would expect a Hollywood agent to be. He’s really hard-hitting. He’s a shark. He’s really the type of person that you would want representing you as an artist because he negotiates on behalf of his client. He goes and he tries to get the best roles, and he always tries to get the most amount of money for his client.
The reason they portray Ari this way is because he’s really an embodiment of what Hollywood agents, what they’re like typically. In general, an agent, what they do is they go out and they find jobs for their clients, so they find jobs for the people that they represent. They support and they promote their clients to someone like a producer or a casting agent, and really their job is two-fold.
It’s to A, like I said, promote their client, but B, they are trying to find the best person for the job that fits what the casting director or the producer is looking for. Really they’re trying to balance between promoting their clients, and finding the best person for the role that the casting director and the producer is looking for.
It’s interesting because I’ve done talent searches before where I’ve reached out to agencies, and they’ve sent back people who it’s clear that they’re trying to find jobs for their client because it doesn’t necessarily match what I’m looking for when I send out a talent request. In those cases, the talent agents, they’re not doing their best work by providing me people that I’m not necessarily asking for.
I always appreciate getting people who might be an interesting look or have an interesting vibe, but in that case, the agent isn’t necessarily doing their job correctly because I, the producer, am looking for something very specific, and they’re not providing it. In those instances, they’re pushing for their client, trying to find them roles.
Usually a talent agent, if you’re an actor, or model, or singer, and you want to be represented by a agent, they, the agent, will take usually between 10 to 20% of the amount that you’re making for the project. Usually when I reach out to agencies, I, the producer, will say I will put the quote for the job, I will give the amount for the session fee, and by session fee I mean the amount of money that the talent is making for the amount of time that they’re shooting.
Usually the session fee depends on a number of factors. It depends on the budget that I have as a producer. It depends on the amount of time the talent will be on set. Usually as a producer I’ll try to negotiate with the talent agent, and talent agents are pretty good about working with me because they want their people to work.
They want to maintain a good relationship with me, the producer, because if we have a good relationship, I have a handful of agents that I really like, they give me good people, and so whenever I cast something, they’re the people that I reach out to first, meaning that those talent agents, they get a lot of work for me. They know that I work on a lot of projects, and that if they maintain a good relationship with me, because they know that I can bring them work later down the line.
When we’re negotiating about stuff, they’re not necessarily thinking about this specific project and getting the most amount of money for it, but they’re thinking about long-term, like what’s beneficial for both parties.
I’m not trying to undercut the agent, but we want to be cost-effective as a production while still being fair to the talent and the agent because we’re hiring them for a very specific role, and you can’t make something without talent, and the agent has a very specific role as well.
I think that’s something that’s lost a lot of the time when it’s being depicted in the media how these relationships really work. I think that’s something that’s lost is that you’re trying to cultivate a good relationship. Sorry, I got a little sidetracked. I was talking about how I approach talking to an agent about the fee.
The session fee, I will outline the session fee, and like I said, we’ll negotiate the session fee, and the session fee is the amount of time, or the fee that the talent gets for being on set, or whatever the session entails. Whether they’re a stand-in for a photo shoot, or it’s a SAG actor, whatever they, the talent, are doing that day, that is the session fee.
Of course, this can vary. Some projects I pay people hourly, some projects I pay people daily. I’ve worked on feature length films where people get paid weekly. They have a weekly rate, or they have a day rate, or they have a hourly rate. It really just depends on the project, what’s entailed, and your budget. That’s how I view a session fee, or a day rate, or a weekly rate as a producer.
Then on top of the session fee, you also negotiate rates for usage. Usage is where the media is actually going to live. If it is a above the line project, that means that the usage for that project is going to be on broadcast television, or it’s a big billboard ad, or it’s a big, big project. Below the line usually means digital, or retail, or social media. Those are how the projects are divided, whether it’s a big project, would be above the line, or a small project would be below the line.
By big and small, that’s just a matter of opinion and negotiating. Those, when you’re working in advertising, that’s how the projects are broken out. If you’re working on a feature length film, that’s something that would be negotiated like where exactly is the film going to live? Is it just on Netflix? Is it just on iTunes, or is it something that’s going to be in theaters?
Usage, it changes depending on where the project is going to live in the future. On top of that is when the talent agent’s fee comes into play. The 10 to 20% range of the project fee, the session plus the usage is the project fee. Then, on top of that is the 10 to 20% where the agent gets paid. Say for example you’re a model, and I’ve negotiated that model to get paid $1,000 for a session fee. Say it’s like a flat, 8-hour day. We don’t expect any overtime. It’s straight up eight hours.
I’m paying that model $1,000 for eight hours plus usage. The project fee is $1,000, the usage is included in that project fee, and the agent is like, “Yep, cool. We’re good with $1,000.” The fee that the agent would get on top of that, say I’m working with a modeling agency. Usually they’re about 20%. They would make $200 off of that one model for that one session.
The model would make $1,000. The agency would make $200. That’s how I think about paying a talent agent. When I reach out to these agencies, I’ll line up the session, how much time we’ll need the talent for, what the usage is, and what the flat rate is, or the hourly rate, and then I’ll say, “That’s what’s included for the project fee, plus 20%.” That’s now I stipulate what will be made by the talent, and what will be made by the talent agent for that project.
It’s interesting because usually with still photography, agencies make 20%, whereas with motion and films, agents make 10%. I’m not exactly sure where that originated, but that’s typically the rule of thumb. It’s typically the rule of thumb when you’re looking at still shoots verse motion shoots. Just keep in mind it’s around 10 to 20%. Apparently, with really big stars, an agent is typically making 10% of the star’s salary for the project.
It’s also interesting, apparently in California, and I don’t work in California, I mean I do work in California a lot, but I’m not based in California. I travel to LA a lot to work on shoots, but I’m not based in LA. In California, because talent agents are working with such lucrative contracts, agencies must actually be licensed under special sections of California Labor Law Code, which defines an agent as a person or corporation who engages in the occupation of procuring, offering, promising, or attempting to procure employment for an artist or artists.
In California, talent agencies are really big business, and there are talent agencies that employ a ton of talent agents within the agency. As of right now, the biggest agencies in the world are William Morris Endeavor, Creative Artists Agency, United Talent Agency, and ICM Partners. Within each of those organizations, they actually have different departments specializing in different types of talent.
They have agents specializing in voice-overs. They have agents specializing in commercials. They have agents specializing in films. Within those big organizations, within those big agencies, they actually have specific departments. Then agents within those departments specializing in those fields. A lot of talent, a lot of actors and actresses, they have both an agent, and they have a manager.
Quite honestly, I don’t deal with a lot of managers, but I didn’t realize that there’s a specific law calling out the difference between an agent and a manager. In California, the prominent difference between agents and managers, under California state law, is that licensed talent agents and employment agencies are the only legal entity to seek work on behalf of their clients.
This is interesting because a lot of actors and actresses have actually been able to break contracts with their managers because their managers didn’t fall under, they were not licensed as a talent agent, so under California State Law, they could actually break off with them legally because the managers were not properly licensed.
All right guys, that’s all we got for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you’re finding these episodes to be helpful and valuable, please share them with your friends. We rely heavily on word of mouth, and any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for listening. We will see you in the next episode.
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